Thursday, May 30, 2013


We are hearing it on the North Shore and on the Windward side too. They should not be forced to pay for a rail mess that is not wanted by the users, especially because the users will be "forced" to use it. Somebody else should pay for it. But the public transportation continues to worsen on both the North Shore and the Windward side to pay for this Crisis. Auwe! Yes we know the big profits by the Rail Party.

"Truth is the secret of eloquence and of virtue, the basis of
moral authority; it is the highest summit of art and of life."

There is some news that they will have some line dancing in Ewa Beach, Kapolei and Waianae but I will have to investigate further. The interest seems to be there but the Rail people have to the buses screwed up. And more than that this section seemed to be attracting more men than in town.

I still think they should allow, the wearing of guns for the men and cowboy hats and cowboy boots should be mandatory. Perhaps, that way the men would feel more manly about line dancing in this culture we live in. Not enough men, "Get Out There And Dance!"

"Sh-Boom, (Life Could Be A Dream)" by the Crew Cuts

Regarding the worry that some of these very good dancers are watching you and are judging and critical, I have bad news and I have good news:

The bad news is that unless you're a really super dancer, they're not watching you. You're being ignored.

The good news is that unless you're a really super dancer, they're not watching you. You're being ignored.

And if you are a superdancer, and they're watching you with a frown on their faces, it's probably because they envy you, and also they're hard at work trying to copy your material.

Pub's Side Note: Ordinary Communication Media: To whom it may concern, one way, newsletters, email flyers, web sites. They do their job but nuttin' like a blog.

Sunday, May 26, 2013

Should Everyone Dance?

I think most of us think that way. It is good for you on an emotional, physical and spiritual level. And it doesn’t really matter, with whom you dance, how you dance, or where you dance.

"Truth is a deep kindness that teaches us to be
content in our everyday life and share the
same happiness with our fellow dancers."

The music moves all of us and makes us feel good. Just watch the kids at any young get together. No form or structure, they just get up and go for it! Some may realized that they also get exercise when they dance but the main thing is moving to their favorite music.

There have been many exercise forms developed using music to enhance the movements and everyone benefits because the body is moving and exercising to whatever music is indicated. Fine.

'Tiny Bubbles" by Don Ho

Some people prefer to take a structured class, others like to “go out” dancing, and some like to just dance when nobody is around to see. We should learn to accept all kinds, clones are for the disciplines.

Of course, line dancing is a favorite for beginners. Besides learning self-discipline, they improve their memories too, learning the steps in the proper sequence. They become acquainted with the type of music used in Social Partner Dancing.

And with no partners they evolved their own personal and unique styling, it does the most for men only they don't know it. They learn the lead easier and of course the ladies are terrific in the follow.

For some couples, learning a great combination in a social dance class and working it over and over at different dance functions gives them the ability to feel free in the movement as they get better and better at it so that they experience oneness of mind, body and soul. Just do it!

Any dancers out thataway?

When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot
separate myself from life. I can only be joyful
and whole; that is why I dance. ~ Hans Bos

Thursday, May 23, 2013


For our reader/dancers that are also computer users: Ransomware is on the rise again and it has now hit Hawaii, no doubt about that. Cyber security experts’ predictions were correct. Apparently they know this stuff very well. Seriously, you have to respect them. They also said that ransomware will probably hit smart phones too. We haven’t seen any of these yet but it’s probably just a matter of time.

Anyway, today we’re looking at the FBI MoneyPak virus or Trojan if you like. Most people nowadays don’t really know how to properly describe malware. I don’t know what it is, so let’s just call it a virus. Education is the key guys, especially when it comes to PC security. So, let's make things sparkling clear.

If your computer screen is filled with a FBI warning page that claims you have to pay the $200 fine, you’re infected with ransomware. It’s not a virus. It can’t delete your files or inject .doc files. And there is no record of any unlocking by anyone of the payees to the ransom. They just want your money.

Do not pay. Get help from any of your computer geek friends if possible. So far Apple nor Microsoft have the programmers to stop it. And the FBI and the CIA are at a complete loss. The Anti-Virus gang is having a field day selling all kinds of Snake Oil. Careful, it's a jungle out there.

Pub's Side Note: I am beginning to suspect that Calvin has a large following in the International sector. Already, Town Dancer is back in the number one spot and leading by more that 15 points.

Wednesday, May 22, 2013


For our reader/dancers that are also computer users: Ransomware is on the rise again, and it has now hit Hawaii. No doubt about that, cyber security experts’ predictions were correct. Apparently they know this stuff very well. Seriously, you have to respect them. They also said that ransomware will probably hit smart phones too. We haven’t seen any of these yet but it’s probably just a matter of time.

Anyway, today we’re looking at the FBI MoneyPak virus or Trojan if you like. Most people nowadays don’t really know how to properly describe malware. I don’t know what it is, so let’s just call it a virus. Education is the key guys, especially when it comes to PC security. So, let's make things sparkling clear.

If your computer screen is filled with a FBI warning page that claims you have to pay the $200 fine, you’re infected with ransomware. It’s not a virus. It can’t delete your files or inject .doc files. And there is no record of any unlocking by anyone of the payees to the ransom. They just want your money.

Do not pay. Get help from any of your computer geek friends if possible. So far Apple nor Microsoft have the programmers to stop it. And the FBI and the CIA are at a complete loss.


The new programmers are a much different group than the old programmers. The old ones were simplifiers, not the new ones. I am sure that many programming "committees' come to a point where somebody says, "Wait a minute, there must be a more complicated way of doing this."

'Do not forget small kindnesses and do not remember small faults."

Computers are getting more complicated. Twenty years ago when the GUI came into use, they were tools, utensils to be used  by everyone. Now one has to be very careful. The computers come full of stuff you will never need. Press the wrong button and you will send the computer to the moon.

That is the why of the new Chromebook by Google, using the KISS method. Keep It Simple, Stupid. Your email, and little word processing is the extent of it and it does a very good job. It does complicate things in photos but everyone does even in point and shoot cameras.

“Borderline” By Madonna

It is no wonder that many out there do not want to even look like they will make a commitment to be an information and photo contributor. They would rather have no commitments and complications. But it should be evident by now how often our Guest Authors blog. They do not have any special commitments (except to their special readers) we just provide the platform, that is all.

For now we need someone in the International Division of Dancing to support and enhance Calvin's blogs. We are getting overwhelmed with support for the American Style of Dance.Then we need another person that frequents the Night Club circuit and could supplement Richie's contributions very nicely. This blog seems to have those kinds of reader/dancers. For sure this blog would go to number one, stay there and we could prepare for its independence.

"Dance To The Music' by Sly & the Family Stone

Then this blog also seems to be developing readers in the more advanced stages of dancing. I prefer the beginner and intermediates. We could develop our own Bronze steps and patterns, which could easily reach 30 but you could enjoy moving to a lot of nice music with just that.

We got some good posters from Manoa Chapter HBDA. Easy to copy and paste to the blogs, ordinarily Blogging the Pacific but I also posted to the new ones, East Ko'olau Blog and Oahu East. I also got an extra into the Central Valley blog.

Sunday, May 19, 2013

The Point of Diminishing Returns.

We are just about there, and Oahu West is lagging behind. Hopefully I can get some photos at HBDA Saturday Dance Review at Aliamanu Elementary. Good for everyone.

We ought to dance with rapture that we might be alive... 
and part of the living, incarnate cosmos. ~ D.H. Lawrence

We need the photos to share with our readers and I may have to cut back even farther to please the Photees. If they do not wish to share with their fellow dancers then we should respect their wishes and stay at a respectful distance.

Fortunately, I am lining up some good ones and one can only hope. I started two new blogs on the Eastside of this island and hopefully one of them will bear fruit. With a good Guest Author, new people, new clubs and new places to dance, and no Rail Disaster to hold them up, it will be jumping.

"Bad Moon Rising" by Creedence Clearwater Revival

Unfortunately, it is rather difficult for me to travel the distance, so it will be up to the Information and photo contributors to get the action rolling. They just have to be willing to share with the entire blogosphere. If not, then I just have to be on my way.

Does anyone dance on that side of the Island?

Individual dancers almost universally have a bond toward what sociologists call reference groups. A reference group is a social group that serves as a point of reference in making evaluations and decisions. In our social clubs, these groups are composed of the De Jure officers and the De Facto rulers (the cliques.)

Generally, people are relatively equal in terms of power when they interact with peers. Cliques, however are a group of people that have many of the same interests & commonly found in a High School/College setting and they can carry over the methods to dance clubs. Their primary interests are for their group not the clubs and most of the time they have a name and rules for themselves.

The Dance DJ

A disc jockey, also known as DJ, is a person who plays recorded music for an audience. Originally, "disc" (sometimes spelled "disk", although this is now uncommon) referred to phonograph records, not the later Compact Discs. Today, the term includes all forms of music playback, no matter the medium.

"Those who sedulously attend, pointedly ask, calmly speak, coolly answer and cease when they have no more to say are in possession of some of the best requisites of humans."

Our cultural dance DJs select and play music in the Streets, Gas Stations, Malls, Parks, School Cafeterias, District Parks, Community Centers, bars, nightclubs, or at parties or raves.

In the beginning DJs in Hawaii were well aware of the difference in "Regular" and "Latin" music. This was mainly due to the influence of American Style Dance Teachers and they "knew" the difference. Today, we all appreciate that these instructors knew quite a bit about social dancing in our world.

Several millenniums back a drum with a rhythm to it is was the greatest. The young in particular could go for moving to that rhythm. But, gradually the music began to evolve and some was good and some not so good. The good ones became favorites, naturally. With ten thousand being produced daily, it is no wonder there is so much junk out there. But the dancers are beginning to recognize the differences.

Anything doing out in the Waianae Coast?

Even today, the rhythm is very important to the young, and not so much with the "old." What is important to the old is the favorites. Is it any wonder that the oldies, bands and DJs are the ones perking up the action on Oahu? Just any waltz with a three count rhythm is never going to be the same as "The Tennessee Waltz" by Patti Page. Many DJs do not understand. "We" are gradually going to recognize the differences.

"Rags To Riches" By Tony Bennett

Many years ago we had a couple of DJs that would announce the name of the song, the band and the name of the singer. But it was lost somewhere. But, in our day we knew much of that, it was simply reinforced very nicely.

Pub's Side Note: Fortunately, I am meeting more people that have good speakers on their computers. With some good speakers you can play music that may sound better than your high class stereos. Or a good set of Earphones. I can give them some of my music.

Wednesday, May 15, 2013

The Plot Thickens

I am coming across an entirely new world out there. I had only dealt with it occasionally but now it looms in its importance to Cultural dancing as we know it.

“Nobody can go back and start a new beginning,
but anyone can start today and make a new ending.”

Most of us had gone to Rumours in its hey day of "Ballroom Dancing" and we also frequented the Hale Koa. That was my extent of it but apparently there has always been much more. My investigation into our cultural dancing has brought my blogs into being and also brought me in contact with other Web and blog sites dedicated to "dancing."

The latest is Honolulu Dance Guide now definitely in first place with over 120 average hits per day. Town Dancer is in second place with over 110 hits. The new Web site "70s Nightclub Reunion" is in third place and it has a counter and a nice motto, 'You should be dancing." It is a very professionally designed Web Site and the results are there. Honolulu Dance Guide and 70s Nightclub Reunion both cover the night club scene with live music and the American Style of Dance.

"Three Coins In The Fountain" by the Four Aces

We have a third, Rock And Jazz Hawaii which has no counter and covers mainly the listening part of the night club scene. Together these top three probably come pretty close to the totals of all the other 2 dozen dance Web and blog sites on this island.

The puzzle remains that even though Town Dancer is now in second place and is losing hits, all our others are slowly gaining. Since no one knows anything about these things, least of all me, I just have to play it by ear and I will have something pretty concrete in a couple of months.

For sure, the one item needed, that is most indicated, is that one Guest Author in any one of the blogs, and they can have their pick. The worst one can bring it up 20 hits, the best 50 hits, but the results will be there, guaranteed. Not only that but the synergism will create even more hits on the other blogs. Anyone out there willing to share?

New kid on the block? Nevah make it!

Then we can ascertain that all of these dancers can very easily dance with each other (lead and follow) in the expanded Bronze level of the American Style of Dance. Regular, about 15 steps, Expanded to about 30 steps. The estimates have also expanded from 1% to 2% so now we have a potential of 20,000 dancers in Hawaii. Or as the Rootzi Tootzis have declared, "the inmates have taken over the asylum." Have fun, and Keep Dancing.

Pub's Side Note: Fortunately, I am meeting more people that have good speakers on their computers. With some good speakers you can play music that may sound better than your high class stereos. Or a good set of Earphones. I can give them some of my music.

At a Stand Still

I just don't know, which should be nothing new. The places to dance in this territory have just not been as available as they could be. And perhaps we are getting too much benefit from them and not giving enough to them. Blogging is still an unknown factor in the West.

“What we call the beginning is often the end. And to make an end is to make a beginning.
The end is where we start from.”

The net result should be a benefit for all concerned but the problem is that no one has understood how that could be. But for sure we must be as understandable as possible. If they do not wish to be involved, then we must respect and not bother.

I will make one last attempt at Puuhale School, for Dance Hawaii. If it doesn't  work, this blog will be reduced to once per week. I will also make another attempt at HBDA Ohana at the Palladium. And I will play it by ear after that.

Of course there is Fleet Lounge and Ige's 19th Puka but that is pending. I tried others but they all seem to think I am making millions on their good looks, talent, fame and good fortune.  They don't know, we will be patient.

Pub's Side Note: There are over 2800 religions in the world. How can you be so sure that yours is the right and only one?


Sunday, May 12, 2013


“I may disagree with what you have to say but I shall defend to the death your right to say it."

Generally attributed to Voltaire. But the truth remains wherever and it is the same in all our blogs.

Guru's in dancing are everywhere and we should listen to them because they have very valuable opinions. However , they are likely to give us the same old items that we have heard before. What we desperately need are the opinions of our readers.

That is very likely a unique and different view point and that is where its value is. That is the important information needed by the reader/dancers of these blogs. That is the gold mine of information that is thirsting for by the readers. The social dance environment needs to know what the dancers want, not what the Ivory Towers tell them that they should want.

"Bad Moon Rising" by Creedence Clearwater Revival

Your own favorite photos, of course, are also your opinion.  Together all the opinions are what is necessary for continued social functioning of our dance environment in the best manner possible. So a Guest Author and his/her view point means nothing to us? But of course now you know different, his or her viewpoint is very important to our dance environment. And this is the place to distribute it, we provide the platform and they use it as they wish.

Then this has been coming up more often especially since I have been seeing so many people enjoying the competition environment. And Calvin's version is super.  A dance contest in American Style of Dance in Hawaii. Just keep the big National organizations out of  it. Make them the way they used to be way back. In those days they were not referred to as competitions but contests. And there has always been favoritism. But generally most have recognized the best dancers as a result. Just for fun we could add the peripherals too. Salsa, Line dancers, Swing dancers. We could have a ball enjoying all of them.

Hopefully we can get some people dancing in this sector and get the blog rolling.

The new Dance Pavilion would have been perfect to have American Style of Dance contest because we have so many good teachers of this style of dance. So many good dancers but unfortunately we all have to suffer for the Rail Calamity. The new Rail Political Machine rules. So we proceed ahead.

Cultural Dancing

Most of us know little about the official and complicated dance techniques that dance organizations have set up during the years. But there are many good dance gurus with plenty of experience that have a vast amount of knowledge in their own kuleanas.

"Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome."

The Internationals more than the American Style because it is more concise and unanimous by Style. A third group has been emerging lately in which there are many opinions, many of which are very good, short and to the point.

Many millenniums ago, even before we became "modern man" there was some type of movement to a rhythm that was not straight walking. The great apes have something like this and many have seen it in this day and age.
"Young At Heart" by Frank Sinatra

But it was not until the beginning of Agriculture and the start of villages and the advent of the drum that dancing began. If the drum just went boom, boom, boom the people learn to walk in just slightly different way but keeping time to the drum. A little extra move of the shoulder, or the hip, or the knee, whatevah.

And from there evolved the most basic movement that exists to this day. You have all seen how they dance in Africa, just jumping up and down, one, two, three, four. And some do not need any count because it has no accent. All this voodoo about dance influence from Africa on Latin dance is just lack of documentation and misinterpretation. In the US, it is well documented that Jazz evolved from the Negros "after" the emancipation, from the Indian music and the marches of the day. Not from Africa.

"In My Life" by the Beatles
If Agriculture began 10000 years ago, about 8000 BC, the Indian Villages in Mexico began their similar trek into dancing as others all over the world. By 3000 BC, they had large towns that could afford professionals in many things. Religion, Astronomy, Mathematics, Music and Dance.

Now came the variations in movement all according to the same step, step, step of the no accent dance. With music it was easy to develop the One, two, One two with the accented beat. A famous movement even in the North American Indians was the toe on One, and the full foot on the two. You can see those to this very day.

The most famous remains the Milonga, an original South American cat dance with a pounce at the end of a short run. All step, step, step. Gradually accepted by the "illegal aliens" and it gradually evolved into the Tango.

So we come to the present day social cultural dancer. The street dancer with some school learning. Yes, it certainly helps, they have to learn standard movements so as to facilitate the lead and follow. These people just enjoy moving to music. Others have a different slant. No hu hu, we should attempt a little understanding and everyone should have a right to "their" way.

No truth to the rumor of a keg of beer and six cases of champagne.

The line dancers want to dance their way at their gatherings. Why not? The Salsa dancers want to dance their way at their gatherings. Why not? The Tango dancers want to dance their way. Why not? The only annoying thing is when any one of them start to look down their noses at the rest of us. Then it can become bothersome. Auwe!

Wednesday, May 8, 2013


by Jacqueline Hewlett, Waialae Iki.

According to some of the news we have been reading, the world is headed for the most important transformation in its history. The domination of the political, social and economic realms by men is about to come to a devastating end - and women are going to take over in all the important fields of control.

"Life, in all ranks and situations, is an outward occupation, an actual and active work."

Men have been in charge since the dawn of civilization and look at the mess they have made. But men and women are more alike than anyone realizes. All men are not cut from by some cookie cutter, but neither are women. All of us are different and we all have our personal opinions.

We are alike in more ways than we know so the women will have the opportunity to screw up the works too. In fact they are doing so already. In the last Washington administration, Condolezza Rice doing the bidding of Bush/Cheney, Sarah Palin being advised by the right wing, another screwball and they are coming. Michelle Bachman? Gawd! There is no stopping them. We will have some good ones (Hilary Clinton) but inevitably, we will have the bad ones too.

In Hawaii, it is becoming more evident than anywhere else. Why? The new political machine has taken over and as per usual, it's the money, Sonny. The Rail Fiasco! Unfortunately it is being run by men.

"She Bop" By Cyndi Lauper

Pub's Side Note: Besides the pearls of information we may receive for our reader/dancers, we need the photos of five to seven people with the first names, in our blogs.

It will take time for the "powers" to understand that they are not first in blogs. Blogs preference is for the reader/dancer. Anybody ever notice that we have never asked for any money? Strange. But we want everyone to know that one of these days, we, the reader/dancers, just may get to know each other better. Anyone out there picking up on this action?

Tuesday, May 7, 2013

Da Waltz

By Franklin Chen, Fernandez Village

Dancing in 3/4 time was from the days of the Renaissance. And there are records of it being danced in various places across Europe.

"Take calculated risks, that is quite different from being rash."

The peasants of Bavaria, Tyrol, and Styria began dancing a dance called Walzer, a dance for couples, around 1750. Then wide, wild steps of the country people became shorter and more elegant when introduced to higher society. There are several references to a sliding or gliding dance,- a waltz. There were many starts from many places for the Waltz who's time had merely come.

In the transition from country to town, the hopping of the Ländler, a dance known as Langaus, became a sliding step, and gliding rotation replaced stamping rotation.The Viennese custom is to slightly anticipate the second beat, which conveys a faster, lighter rhythm, and also breaks of the phrase. While the eighteenth century upper classes continued to dance the minuet, bored noblemen slipped away to the balls of their servants.
"The Tennessee Waltz" by Patti Page

The younger Strauss, in the 1840s. would sometimes break up the one-two-three of the melody with a one-two pattern in the accompaniment along with other rhythms, maintaining the 3/4 time while causing the dancers to dance a two-step waltz. Later went into a chasse and the Viennese Waltz can be danced with Samba pattern all the way through.

By the time the Austrian Maximilian took over as Emperor of Mexico, he and his friends imported the Viennese Waltz to Mexican High Society. Fortunately, the Indians had been dancing the three count movement to a three count measure but they had also been dancing a chasse to a faster three count as in Viennese Waltz. But now it became a partner dance and the peasant style remains very popular in most Latin countries.

Do they dance Waltz in that territory?

The metronome speed for a full bar varies between 60 and 70, with the waltzes of the first Strauss often played faster than those of his sons. In the 19th century the word primarily indicated that the dance was a turning one; one would "waltz" in the polka to indicate rotating rather than going straight forward without turning.

The Waltz remains as some of the most beautiful music and some of the most enjoyable dancing that exists in the world today.
"Of the dancers, by the dancers and for the dancers" All the dancers?
Of course not, they do not all want to be involved and we must respect."

Saturday, May 4, 2013

Slow Moving

We gotta dead blog, just cannot get the action that is going on. The lower end of the corridor at Mapunapuna is silent. There could be something there but we just don't know about it. Up a short way we have the Aliamanu Intermediate School but that is in process of raising the prices. (Gotta Pay Fo' Da Rail)

"Let us not believe, either half of the good that people tell us of ourselves,
nor half of the evil they say of others."

At the Plaza Hotel, they were thinking about some dancing but they also realized that the Rail Fiasco is gonna screw up the works. With estimated costs now going to ten billion dollars, it may get stalled along the way when they run out of funds. What a waste of money.

Fleet Lounge still going good, just need a good social dance music DJ. Good prices and plenty nice people there. With some weekly regularity in the middle of the week it could develop into a real Pau Hana Dance. 5:00 to 9:00. Drop in after work, and going home with a nice uncrowded freeway. Would get a terrific reputation is a short while throughout the territory.

Past the Stadium the most developed place, is Pearlridge Mall. Most Young People style dancing all over the place. No mention at all of Cinco De Mayo so der ain't any places wid it.

"California Girls" - Beach Boys

What is Web 2.0?: Many people who use the Internet daily run into the term web 2.0 and many of those people don’t know what it means. This is actually very understandable considering that for most people the Internet does not seem any different than when they were first exposed to it. In order to truly understand web 2.0, it is necessary to understand the difference between the Internet as it is today, and as it was back during the first Internet boom of the late 90’s.

When the boom first started, it was driven by investors who saw the potential of easy money and the new frontier of the web. As companies started pouring money, other companies quickly followed suit in an attempt to stay even with their competitors. Unfortunately, as we all know, this didn’t work out the way many people envisioned which led to the crash.

However, there were many companies that learned some valuable lessons and have done things differently which have become part of the frame work of web 2.0. There are millions of things that are just marvelous but unfortunately it is getting more and more hamstrung by the increase in circus barker selling and outright stealing by malware.

Q: How many psychiatrists does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Just one, but the light bulb has to really want to change.

The New Horizon

This is amazing. I am finally in control of these blogs. By control, I mean it in the accounting way. Inventory Control just means that they know where everything is and how it moves and how to establish an automatic reorder point. Even if never perfect I am there now with my eight blogs and I can see the point of diminishing returns in a month if all factors remains static.

"In our Book of Life, what will matter is not our competence, but our character,
not how many people we knew but how many will feel a lasting loss when we're gone."

So I had to try to make it better, no guarantee but one doesn't know until one tries. There were name changes, and some hits have changed for the better. And the other indicators are all out there. In the stats I evolve many other conclusions than just the amount of hits. There are also percentages of increase and the market shares of the blogs in relation to each other.

First on the agenda are the steady information and photo contributors. Too many of our reader/dancers do not seem willing to share information or photos with their fellow dancers and friends. Of course the entire concept of blogging is new to them, (me too.) And we will all learn, some easier than others.

"Only The Lonely - Roy Orbison"

Once we have steady information contributors willing to share, then they will realize that their opinion along with the others is very valuable to blogging. It should then be relatively easy to convert anyone of them into a Guest Author. That means they can get in the blog, write, post fotos, and get out, all on their own. Town Dancer with just few more Guest Authors, ha! what do they need me for?

I calculate each Guest Author that posts two or three times a month is worth at least 30 hits and perhaps 40 with the synergism created. So 400 average hits per day is not out of reach in the very near future. That is 12000 hits for a 30 day month. They will be ready. The "junk" blogs will remain mine forever.

Pub's Side Note: "Of the dancers, by the dancers and for the dancers" All the dancers? Of course not, they do not all want to be involved and we must respect.